{ tinker, tailor, soldier, spy. }

[delga]

Oh, Spooks fans. What the fuck am I supposed to do with you, you loveable bunch of sillies? Seriously, I love everyone I've met in this fandom and the ones I don't love, I've never spoken to. But...sigh.

We wanted strong women! We wanted spies with guts and brains, spies who weren't like 'useless' Jo, not like namby-pamby Adam. And yet predicatbly, the majority of the fandom that I encounter hates Ros. Oh, fandom! What am I going to do with you?

Ros is not supposed to be loved in the way that we came to have affection for Ruth. She's not supposed to be Zoe, or Tessa, or Christine Dale. She's not Ruth, or Juliet or Sam. Ros is a force unto her own. She's not heartless, she's focused. So she's not on the 'in'; she doesn't have unwavering faith in Harry and his troubadours. You know what? That's refreshing. She's not an antagonist in the way Juliet is set up to be. She's not naive, she's not stupid. She works well alone because she has the brains to carry herself but she knows when she's out of her depth and knows the worth of the team support (see ep.7 where she clearly needs back up, see ep.5 when she's all in to help Ruth). I think people's reactions to her turning over Ruth is erring more on the side of fannish obsession than logical sense because (a) remember, Ros doesn't trust these people completely (and they don't trust her, so it's even stevens on that score) and (b) if the dead woman had just turned Neil over in the latest episode, she probably wouldn't be dead. Ros did exactly what was required of her from her job.

Lastly: you cannot compare Ros to Ruth. You cannot do it. They are in two completely different categories.

I loved episodes 6-7. I thought they were well-written and well directed (trust me on this one - I would be the first to slaughter something if the writing was bull. I have no tolerance for crappy writing). I loved the camera play, and I loved the twists in the plot. It was neat, the parallels between Neil and Carter weren't too overboard. The side story with him and his babysitter is a great big yawn to me for the single reason that I find his personal details exceedingly overwrought and Adam himself to be not-that-great a hero. There's too much saluting on his end. It bores me, but that's a personal opinion.

But Ros is a gutsy character, the kind I've been waiting for, the kind that is cool and detached, focused on what she has to do. She's not black and white, but she's not a complete harlot, either. She's the most interesting addition to the cast since the let-down that was Fiona Carter.

No, I don't think this episode would have been better as a one-parter, especially because all that exposition in the first episode needed time to roll out, and would have been far too forced and convenient if it was stuffed into one hour. No, I don't think Ros even needs to be redeemed for her part in Ruthgate, because hello, she was doing her job. No, I don't think the episodes were boring in the least and I certainly don't think that the episodes are formulaic. You want formulaic? Just watch any two episodes of Law and Order, CSI or House MD. And really, the issue I'm having with this fandom right now is the same issue I have with every fandom I'm in. I'm all for the characters, but I watch so many shows that are procedural dramas that I'm clearly someone who is there more for the plot than the people. On top of that, people are mixing up canon with being a fan. When you want something to happen, that's something that should be extrapolated via fandom - via discussion and fanfiction. But the show itself should not resemble fanfiction. You wanted the Ruth/Harry relationship? SO did I. But if it had been any more than what it is, and if it had been played out earlier, the show would have been devoid of its actual plot. We forget that Ruth and Harry (as an example I'm apparently very fond of at the moment) are not Spooks. Adam Carter is not Spooks. Their interpersonal relationships, whilst imporant to some degree, are not and definitely should not be the focus of a show about spies, and subterfuge, and homeland defence.

Will someone write good femslash? Or direct me to good femslash?

Comments

[denorios.livejournal.com]

I just miss Ruth. So anything I say about Spooks is entirely partial and biased by the fact that I miss Ruth. I'm one of those people who watches for characters, not plot - and I miss my favourite character desperately, so that's definitely colouring the way I view Spooks right now. Hopefully time will ease that and I'll swing back to loving the show. And maybe I'll even grow to like Ros. Right now I'm all 'grrr, don't like Ros, miss Ruth'. Logical? Nope.

But I definitely agree with you on the nanny front. I was bored of her the moment she showed up. Why do we even need to see this? How is Adam's nanny even relevant? Yawn.

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

No, I do understand that, I completely do. But you know when you understand something logically and know it to be true but you're still irrationally irrateted by it? Yeah. I guess because I have no-one to squee with. And I loved Ruth, I really did, but I just take cast changes in my stride. (Yo, Law and Order fan here. They have a bloody revolving door.) So I get that people in fandom are especially likely to be drawn t the character stuff, and I'm a little different in that respect. I also have to remember that I'm the girl who was irritated by ER post season 4 just because there were less new medical techniques and more character driven stuff.

(I also have to stop categorising shows by plot and character. For example I go Spooks, plot; Grey's Anatomy, character. If I stopped doing that, I probably wouldn't be so pissed off with s2 of SPN).

Argh, what a stupid plotline! I! Do! Not! Care! And Carter grates me. He's so full of it.

[denorios.livejournal.com]

I'd like to think that I watch television shows for the thought-provoking plotlines and the intelligent dialogue etc, but the truth is, I'm a fangirl through and through. And I seem to be incapable of watching a show without shipping someone in it. I actually annoy myself sometimes with the squeeing.

What's annoying you about SPN? That's my ultimate fangirl show - as you've probably gathered from my LJ! I just squee mindlessly over Sam and Dean.

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

Hee, I think I ship all of my fandoms too, except I'm less OTP about it and make people polyamorous. So everyone is sleeping with everyone else. Really, I'm just a h0r.

Oh, I'm just incapable of squeeing over emo boys. And the first few episodes have been weak. (Compare to, say, Hook Man and Bloody Mary, both of which I loved).

[denorios.livejournal.com]

Really, I'm just a h0r.

'Nowt wrong with that!

Going back to Spooks, Harry/Ruth were my OTP of OTPs, mainly because they were both so real, if that makes sense? Not young studly beautiful people like you get in most TV shows, and they were both so bloody useless at the relationship thing. And of course Ros plays a part in breaking up my OTP, so I'm all hatey at the moment. It'll wear off.

And as for SPN, well, I don't mind the emo. I actually like it. It's quite cute at times. I do prefer it when they're not emo though - for example, I loved Hell House because they were both so silly and happy. I'm just a bit worried about this Jo character - it's interesting actually, I'm so much harder on female characters than male ones. In any show. I wonder why that is?

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

See, that's why I could buy Ruth/Harry over Carter's new chick, or really, any of the other relationships. We watched that relationship blossom. It was so real.

I'm leaning far away from things doing with Jo mostly because I think fandom has a habit of infecting me with mass moods, so to speak. I don't have an opinion on her yet. If she becomes terribly irritating, I'm sure I will ;)

I guess it's because a female character is essentially a block between our hero/protagonist and us. You're not the only one like that, though. I also know loads of so-called "man-haters". They're not man haters at all, they're just harsher on the male characters. Depends what show I'm watching. SPN is a boy-show, though. Adding woman to the mix has the issue of maybe diluting it.

[denorios.livejournal.com]

I think with Jo it's because SPN is about the boys (with their father occasionally) and I don't really want that to change. I like the whole show being just Sam and Dean (and I don't mean in a Wincest way - that's just for fic) - adding anyone else is going to dilute that, as you said, and it wouldn't be the show I fell in love with, which is Sam and Dean and the monsters and their relationship as brothers.

But on the reality side, having those two poor boys being the only characters in the show has got to be pretty wearing on Jared and Jensen, so no wonder they're bringing others into the mix! Wearing out your leads is probably not good business practise.

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and according to Jensen, they're pretty much always digging at the writers to get some fresh female blood, so to speak.

(I like her mother? I like the idea of a no-BS woman setting them straight, so long as she wasn't a substitute. I loved the irony of Amber Benson playing a vampire, though. She was fabulous.)

[denorios.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I liked Ellen too. But Jo just seems one of those characters that are little too close to Mary Sue's for my comfort - pretty, smart, spunky, blonde, a hunter, you know?

But Amber was great. I just love Amber, in anything. That's another OTP I never quite got over, Willow and Tara. Although Willow was one of those characters I could have shipped with anyone: Giles, Oz, Xander, Tara, Buffy...

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

Jo was waaay too much sass, I think. So was Dean's other girlfriend, the one from Route triple Six. Which...rarr much?

Oh, when Tara is killed? I wept like the sorry fangirl I am.

[denorios.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I cried like a baby. I loved Tara.

You know, one of the things I never ever got on Buffy were the people who criticised Amber Benson for being fat. I was like, whuh? How? What? How? Amber is just gorgeous.

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

So now having a healthy BMI is fat? Although I guess next to the pipe-cleaner that was SMG, I guess people's eyes...no, there's no excuse. Amber Benson is all sorts of divine.

[denorios.livejournal.com]

SMG always just...I don't know, I liked Buffy but there was something about SMG that irritated me. And she has a funny nose.

But yes, Amber is utterly divine. I hope we see her again in SPN.

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

ITA. Even the bit about the nose. I always prefered Faith.

I do too. She would make an excellent recurring character.

[hestia8.livejournal.com]

For various reasons (see journal) I have yet to watch half of 506 in depth or 507 at all so this might change, but based on the first 5 episodes of s5, I just can't stand Ros (though I will say she gets some killer lines and I have no problem with Hermione Norris). And it's nothing to do with her not being Ruth (and I don't think most people are comparing her to Ruth), and it's not even anything to do with not liking her (I don't actually *like* Juliet - I can go on at length about how shite she is - but I love it when she's onscreen).

I had a big discussion on the phone with one of my friends who said very similar stuff to what you're saying about Ros, but I can't find it in myself to be interested in her. I just find her boring and frustrating and irritating. However I'm finding that a lot of my feelings about rl people are beginning to leech into how I react to fictional people (which is to say once my sister moves out I'm hoping to get my rational brain back). Meh.

I'm just finding that as series 5 continues, my level of human interest in the characters is decreasing - and maybe I'm odd (as in I seem to be incapable of writing fic about spies with actual spying in it) but that's what keeps me tied to a show. And right now, the list of characters where I'd care if they killed them off next week runs Adam, Harry, Malcolm and Zaf. And that's a pretty small total compared to how I felt about this show in previous years.

I've copied this to read at more length while I'm skiving this morning; I may come back and response more later :)

[hestia8.livejournal.com]

Yeah, um, ignore my shitty formatting there, it really is too early for me to attempt stuff like this. *hangs head*