{ the mess you left }

[delga]

GIP! Again!

So, I tried to have an educated conversation with someone yesterday about Brokeback Mountain and we were doing just about OK (just) when we conflicted on Ennis' sexuality. And the realisation hit me that I don't really care. Straight, bi-, gay - labels that I'm actually hard pressed to define. (Say to me slash and femslash? Yeh, ok). I mean, ok, yes, I'm not that daft up in the head; I know general realms of each but then we were talking about Ennis and I realised that his sexual orientation has very little to do with the actual story.

Or not. Whatever. I just wanted to make that known.

Frank O'Hara today because if I don't start, I'll never start, you know? I'm still ticking over this week's SPN but I don't think that means anything anymore. My fic and canon have long since parted ways, to the point where it's non even fanon, it's original writing. I do want to write something about the difference of what the boys face compared to the "old magic", as we call it, of the East. But that's because I'm plain obsessive. Oh, btw, the geek in me loves this gen fic. Read, please. (Amusingly, this is the sort of thing I'm revising for OE. I feel cooler now that I know Dean didn't get it).

ETA: What the fuck is going on with LJ? My web address is all reversed. WHY???

Comments

[wliberation.livejournal.com]

And the realisation hit me that I don't really care ... I realised that his sexual orientation has very little to do with the actual story.

*lurvs you*

Exactly!

As you know, I don't really talk about these things with people (btw, you always make me realise how much I miss having an intelligent conversation in RL because it's been so long since), but when I read slash, I always get annoyed at stories that do that 'define the label' thing. They go through the yada yada of "I've never had sex with a man/woman before" or "I first realised that I was interested in men/women when..." etc. and I'm going all, blah blah blah, with the appropriate hand gestures attached, because really? I couldn't care less. I don't care if they've ever had sex with a man/woman before or if they ever will after this relationship because it's not about that. And what I find great about slash (well, the pairings that I fan and the way I slash them, anyway) is that it's not about their sexuality; it's about them, these two persons, their relationship, raw and pure, and fuck all definitions. (And it's not even that a pairing is defined by the characters' sexuality only in slash. It happens with het pairings, too, all the frigging time, and I'm talking about stories in general here, not just fanfiction. And I find it annoying then as well.) Most of the time? The label is completely irrelevant to the story. So why must people concentrate on that? ...Okay, so I kind of know the answer to that, so consider that rhetorical.

Geez, I should really learn how to use paragraphs. *pokes self* :)

Hehe, I'm just listening to the songs you sent me, by the way. Will say something intelligent later.

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

*loves*

You see, the discussion we were having was actually whether or not Ennis was gay, bi- or straight. I was arguing straight, the other was arguing gay/bi-. And I was like, well, it doesn't really matter, does it?

What was really bugging me was...ok. I was arguing that Ennis was a straight man who just happened to fall in love with a man. I was arguing this because whilst Jack has had multiple male partners, Ennis has had a string of female partners. (I know that there's a possibility that Ennis goes for women because he's scared of the repercussions of being openly gay but whatever. Leave that aside for now). And her argument back to me was "Well, I'm straight and I'd never want to be with another woman." Um? RARRR. NOT my point. If I was going to define sexuality at all, I'd suggest it as a trend. Also, WHO THE FUCK CARES??

By the end, though, she was saying that she did end up seeing the movie as a romance. Which, thank fuck, because I might have got mad. (This is a conversation which started off with her telling me that she didn't like the gay sex scenes and that she found it disgusting. RARRR).

And yay re: music. I don't know how much of that you're actually going to like. I just threw a ton of stuff in, some that I didn't even know I owned.

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

Also?! She didn't understand whole chunks of the story at all. She kept asking me stupid questions.

This is why I should keep my door closed at night. Because when they come back from wherever they've been, they always choose to talk to me. *brainpalm*

[natushka.livejournal.com]

ETA: What the fuck is going on with LJ? My web address is all reversed. WHY???

omg! Yours too! *is all freaked out as well*

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

It's a security thing, apparently.

[wliberation.livejournal.com]

I'm actually with you on that straight, bi or gay thing with Ennis. I mean, if I had to categorise him somehow. I'm in the "school of thought" that believes that very few people actually are 100% gay or straight. It's like this line, where 100% straight is on the other end and 100% gay on the other, and all people are scattered somewhere in between. And if you had to, absolutely had to, you could slice that line into three sections that could somehow define gay, bi and straight. And to explain what I mean, look Ma! I made another "diagram"!



See? Even when you do that "sectioning", you've still got... different types of straight! Different types of bi! Different types of gay! In other words, her "straight" is straight, yes, we can accept that, but it's also possible that your straight is straight, just in a different way. And in my opinion, Ennis falls on the area of straight, considering his past relationships and the fact that at least as far as we're told (basing this on the short-story here), he is not and has not been interested in any other men apart from Jack. Though, I agree with you that even trying to define him somehow is pointless because there are so many ways one could do the categorising, even with that line of mine, and really, who cares? But if I had to say one way or another, I would say that Ennis was straight. ...-ish. Whatever.

Re: music. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff I've already heard/I have. Nice nostalgia trips in between, though; there are many songs that I've had before and haven't heard in ages and ages, and it's nice hearing them now. Like that Counting Crows' version of Big Yellow Taxi (although I prefer the version that hasn't got the annoying female vocals on the background). Yeah, I think I can find some good stuff from here. So thank you! :)

[wliberation.livejournal.com]

See? That kind of people? You should even try having a conversation with. Just... don't bother. If they can't even understand the thing then how could they have an interesting, intelligent, well-justified argument on it?

[wliberation.livejournal.com]

*should not even try having a conversation with. Duh.

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

I love your diagrams. You're a diagram h0r :)

It was very b&w for her and I think she was completely missing the point. So whatever.

But those are Vanessa Carlton's annoying background vocals! Which doesn't help because yes, could do without those. I'm glad it wasn't a worthless task. :)

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

I know. I should have locked the door. Come and save me from the CRAZY FOLKSES!

[wliberation.livejournal.com]

I think I have the background vocals-less version around here somewhere. I could send it to you if you'd like me to.

[wliberation.livejournal.com]

*rides to rescue on her white, majestic horse*

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

Nah, that's ok. Oh! I know what I forget to send, Rachel Yamagata! I'll do that now.

[delgaserasca.livejournal.com]

Oh, my prince princess hero!